Legalized gambling in Bermuda? [Mar 29, 2010].. (click for tonight’s show)
March 29, 2010LISTEN to an audio clip from last night’s show.. first, Mr. Trippe, then Mr. Butterfield, and Mr. Brannon. PLAY MP3 audio>> (courtesy BermudaWired.com)
Tonight, Let’s Talk host Gary Moreno will facilitate what promises to be a lively debate between LEGALIZED GAMBLING proponents Tony Brannon, Ed Trippe, Norman Mastalair and lone dissenter, former PLP spokesperson Corry Butterfield.
Government recently introduced a discussion paper on gambling (a green paper) to determine the feasibility of such a change in laws. Some say gambling would bolster tourism figures, while the religious community warns it could destroy the community’s moral fabric.
What do you think? (Some comments on the forum will be read on-air).
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What kind of marketing is that? Let’s do what our competitors are doing. It’s working for them. That same thinking resulted in the Jazz festival, which only caused us to lose millions and few hundred locals to have a good night. What are we looking to gain from gambling? A few foreign owned hotels and a couple of locals making money predominantly off struggling Bermudians?
Why not limit gambling to tourists only as in some other places
Hi George,
What about gambling liberals who insist that a gambling law should be all or nothing. They point out to exclude locals from gambling is discriminatory and perhaps unjust. This question seems reasonable.
-Tari Trott
(Wed editor)
I don’t agree. Are you saying take the visitors money but the locals can’t be trusted and have to be protected? Very bad idea.
with the shootings and social ills that Bermuda is currently enduring I believe it would be unwise to introduce gaming… which has been know to affect the family adversly
I agree totally with Corry. Bermuda has a tendency to look everywhere else for an answer to EVERYONE besides looking right here. And by the way, every Bermudian should be promoting Bermuda and Bermuda Tourism, not just Government. Everyone knows that word of mouth is the cheapest and most sucessful form of advertising so every Bermudian open their mouths and promote our country.
gambiling should only be allowed in bermuda if its totally controlled by the bermuda people with all proceeds going towards the upliftment of the bermuda people.
with no hotel involvement.
with gaming centers run in st george dockyard and hamilton, not attatched to a hotel.
I like your idea of a Bermudian controlled casino industry but it may not be realistic. The major global players would have the capital, business plans and contacts to bring the players to Bermuda.
I think if you researched my point more you will see differently. And its no reason why these “players” could not negotiate with the bermuda people for this opportunity…if it even exists
every other jurisdiction has gaming… wouldn’t us not having it make us different?
Gaming will not save Bermuda. The number of visitors we get cannot support more than one casino. The report suggests only 25% of visitors will play so locals will have to chip in. Only two of the US states still outlaw gaming, it will not bring a good deal of business here. Most cruise passengers have the opportunity to gamble on the way here and back home. What Bermuda needs is a vibrant nightlife that attracts young and older guests.
How do we get all the tourism businesses to work together.
Lets market the fact that Bermuda does not have gaming and is a place for the family
Tbe bottom line is we allowed Bermuda to flatline. Years ago the major local tourism players discussed the need to rejuvenate the product, because it was evident that we were relying on repeat business that started when people came for Spring Break. But we saw that these people were dying off, and the market was dying also. International Business came in and we ignored the tourism market. Now that its flatlined we want to introduce a gambling as a panacea to benefit a faithful few.
Lets sort out our major problems first before adding fuel to the fire. No point in having casinos if the clientel are shot and robbed outside
Arent we in a recession?Where are people going to get money to gamble with.Just wondering.
So you are going to wait until after the recession is over to start making plans?
Dear Gary ,
Please ask Tony ( and I do love him dearly) if he thinks Bill Marriott would come back to Bermuda if he could have a casino in his hotel.
Many thanks.
We don’t want to work in tourism, we want to a business in the tourism market.
The hotel industry is very labour intensive and without a large supply of inexpensive labour , no hotel can both supply service and make a sustainable profit.
We are not cost effective as a destination , but if we had lower cost hotel rooms there is no doubt that the occupancy rate would rise
If gaming can subsidise room rates then its is a worth while study.
Good point Bill, that exactly why there are no new hotels under construction. There is no way to make a profit unless you can charge very high rates. We have cheaper labor by hiring workers from poor countries but some visitors want to meet locals and learn about our culture. If you want to meet Asians than go to Asia.
I am not so sure that gaming can subsidize room rates because visitors have limited funds for room, food and entertainment plus we have a very small customer base – 500,000 visitors.
The introduction of gambling would give Bermudians the oppertunity to learn a new set of skills, creating the oppertunity for training, new career opertunities and job security; provided that provisions are made to ensure these new jobs stay exclusively for Bermudians and do not resemble the restaurant industry, which mostly hire guest workers.
Sonestas waterpark is a perfect example… I know I took my children there. we can attract tourists without gambling. The risk to our countries people is just too great!
Who decides who gets a gambling license and if it s only the casino in the “new hotel” everyone will go there and the local bars and nightclubs would be finished.
If a foreign hotel chain gets a license for gaming then the Bermuda owned bars should get their machines back to remain competitive as they had them before and had them taken away from them.
Why gambling?? Why not reintroduce nightclubs in the hotels with ‘bermudian flavor’ just like there used to be back in the day?? or even non-bermudian flavor like a real night club playing top 40 music like the majorly successful vegas night clubs around the world?? I am a Bermudian. I am bored. I am not bored because there is no gambling…..we need entertainment!! Turning the big empty ball rooms in the hotels like Hamilton Princess, South P, etc. into REAL nightclubs could be a huge attraction especially if we found a way to give them a inique island feel.
I can only agree completely with Mr. Butterfield.
We have spent the last 20 years proving that we cannot compete with regional destinations by letting them set the agenda. We must compete by being qualitatively different.
The large hotels support gambling only because they will capture more revenue by keeping the guests on site. They could care less that spending outside the property line actually decreases. The benefits will fall to the operators of the casino’s and to no one else.
As to why we should rebuild tourism as a general question there is a good reason if it is done in the Bermudian way. The single thing that made Bermuda Tourism different from that in any other destination in the Caribbean was that the money spread out into the community at large much more than anywhere else. Visitors came and stayed at our hotels and spent a large part of their time and money outside the hotel. We need to go back to that model. If this means not having large hotels, but rather having smaller ones, run by and with More Bermudian staff (think Reefs , Cambridge, Pompano) then that is the way we need to go. The big hotels may not fit here any more.
The proof of the pudding is that most of our repeat visitors simply do not wish to see gambling here. We may gain a few gamblers but we will lose the most valuable of all assets; repeat visitors.
By the way Mr. Brannon misquotes the green paper. It did NOT say that 25% of travellers make their decision to travel based on whether or not a destination offers gambling. The statistic as quoted certainly does not support the notion that we will gain visitors on a net basis. It never even addresses the idea that more money will make it out into the community.
We need to market ourselves based on what we can do that others cannot not by trying to beat them at their own game.
Finally, give a thought to the type of money that follows gambling. Just as we have had a major cultural shift as we have had more and more offshore people as part of our culture, we will have another culture shift as we welcoome the gambling industry. I shudder, as a Bermudian to think where this will take us. The Entertainers will not be Bermudian; The croupiers will not be Bermudian; The managers and dept heads and supervisors will not be Bermudian. All these people will be living among us and will absolutely have a strong influence on who we become over the next generation. 41 shootings in 3 months may be just the beginning.
Listen carefully to what Cory says.!!
I have a wife and four kids. Every time my wife and I travel we look for a destination that provides family entertainment (for us all to enjoy). Whenever we reach there, you have thousands of families that have thought the same.
Why don’t we take advantage of our beautiful ocean and build a top notch resort with a water park, etc. to attract families to Bermuda.
We should also try to cater to Actors and Actresses, find out what their needs are. Bermuda is one of the only places in the world where we do not have the paparazzi. I’m sure they would love Bermuda.
WE DON’T NEED GAMBLING!!!
I agree family tourism will work for us but these politicians are not going to play ball nor provide bermudians with the economic resources to build the entertainment infrastructure needed 2 attract the families
this idea may work when doc brown leaves tourism
If, as Dr. Bridgewater suggests, so many church goers are going away to casinos, that right there proves the dangers of a high societal problem should it be legalized here.
Not so fast Terri. You can gamble online 24/7 without leaving home.
People gambling online are using their credit cards. Local gambling will have more people looking for cash. With so many people struggling, how will they generate this cash? I know for a fact that there a many Bermudians, like myself, who have already exceeded credit limits just to make ends meet, and are looking for new, easy ways to generate cash.
Terri,
That’s not quite accurate. Online gaming requires a credit OR DEBIT card. Without hard facts, I’d estimate that most people use DEBIT cards… just spend directly from their checking/savings account. With a debit card, anyone can gamble.
-Tari Trott
(Wed Editor)
People using their Debit cards have money. I am considering the huge portion of our population that does not have cash sitting in their bank accounts. It annoys me to think that a group of people with loaded pockets will make a major decision like this to ensure that the “have nots” remain “have nots”, while ensuring that their own pockets get larger. There is no benefit to the Bermudians at large in bringing gambling to our island. By the way, I go on cruises and go to hotels, but do not go into the casinos, and I am a Christian (and Church goer).
Why can’t Bermudians be trained for jobs in casinos?
Also, wouldn’t an increase in job oppertunities reduce crime?
The thought is that Bermudians are not interested in the hospitality industry. Many want a 9-5 job and weekends off!
Bermuda will never compete in the current Tourism market…We have two things to offer our guest beaches & golf courses…With the prices the guest have to pay for airlines tickets & $400 average room rates we have to offer more…I think that we should turn Morgan Point to an adult playhouse destination with the hotels and government benefit from taxes from the Casino…Casino not for local just for tourism that why i disagree with a Casino located in our city…I work at a major hotel for 16 years and currently employed with another..overheads are too high for hotels to operate in Bermuda even with rebates from government….
ps when i booked on expedia i tick
beach
restaurant
shows
casino….
Bermuda does not show up….
what we are doing now is obviously not working time to try something new, why are we so afraid of change.
We need to remember that we have 3 gambling instutution currently in the city…Gametime, Triple Crown, and one more…all bets at these establishment currently charge a gov’t tax of 20%. Local spends thousands at these establishments every day…One is located directy on front street
Why don’t we talk to foreign sports clubs, negotiate with them to bring their teams to Bermuda and in their off season(when their weather is bad i.e. snowing etc.) train in Bermuda. With our climate I’m sure this can promise to be very lucrative for our country. Other islands offer this, why don’t we?
i wish mr butterfield would offer some viable alternatives.
The casino is not the issue. The issue is the phantom idea that this would bring us back on the tourist map. A pityful illusion…
Let’s allow cruise ships to have their casino’s open on board while in BDA waters. This will have no impact on our own society and will keep the cruise ships coming to that outrageously expensive dock…
Let’s then lower hotel prices so that what the tourist gets, actually is in relation to what he pays. Can we expect them to come back and spend money on mouldy hotel rooms with tiny televisions and indifferent staff?
Let’s focus on the things that really count.
After a long period of financial wealth, we now see what this does to people who do not handle this wealth with wisdom and humility. Most of the older people in Bermuda still show that wonderful reflection of friendlyness. An interest in the rest of the world.
In most young ones we are seeing a generation that grew up not having to work. Hey, if the family home rents out for 12,000 a month, why try and get a job, right?
If this brings boredom, why not buy drugs? We have the money for it, right?
If this then changes the way we perceive the world and we do not like what we see, why not kill somebody? We don’t care! And let’s be a coward and use a gun, you do not even have to get close!
And if we do not like Bermuda anymore, we can always move to that second home in the States or elsewhere and just come back for visits.
The main problem in our country is that we apparently have not learned how to simply earn a living. Not because we have to, but because we want to improve ourselves. Without looking at the colour of our skin. Let’s not punish an ambitious person of African descent, applying himself, by calling him “a white boy”. Let’s stimulate our children to work hard, get that top-job and come back to Bermuda to complete the circle. Let’s not talk bad about imported staff – if there were a Bermudian to do the job (and do it well!) they would not be here or at least their numbers would go down.
Not only does this create a new, more positive society. It also finally makes sense of the law that all jobs must be offered (and given!) to Bermudians, if they qualify for it. This will give us our islands back. This will make Bermuda Bermudian again. It would bring back that pride in ourselves. We have gold in our hands here! But it is not unique…. Go to any of the Caribbean islands and we see the same type of scenery. And prices are lower. And people are friendlier. But let’s not look at our neighbours. Let’s concentrate on our own country!
And if we do need knowledge from abroad, let’s embrace it, learn their trade and then send them on their way. This is what most ex-pats want anyway: come in, do a job, train locals and be gone. And it fits a world that for the most has understood the law of the Third World: giving food does not help, learning them to farm will.
If we can get a critical mass of Bermudians to shake off the blues and get active, our country can change within a heart beat. If we want power over our own society, let’s stop talking, let’s do it! That is the only way to save Bermuda and preventing it to become another Third World country that blames the world for everything and forgets its own part in this tragedy!